Rugby correspondent Steffan Thomas sits down with the WRU's COO Gavin Marshall

The Welsh Rugby Union has announced losses of £18m, underlining the scale of the financial challenge facing the governing body at a critical time for the future of professional rugby in Wales.

With the WRU committed to reducing the number of professional teams from four to three, the latest figures, which you can read about here, will raise further questions about the financial sustainability of the game and the decisions facing those in charge.

In an interview with WalesOnline, WRU chief operating officer Gavin Marshall sets out the reality of the union’s financial position, reveals its plans for Cardiff Rugby and addresses the truth behind the £10m United Rugby Championship deal that has recently caused controversy.

Cardiff Rugby

The WRU has owned Cardiff rugby since the club entered administration in April 2024.

According to the latest set of accounts, the club posted £1.2m worth of losses which isn't bad in comparison to other professional rugby clubs.

The union initially sought to sell the club to Ospreys owners Y11 Sports & Media but the proposed deal collapsed.

A consortium featuring three prominent Hollywood producers were also interested in acquiring the club only for the WRU to take Cardiff off the market.

But the Hollywood consortium, which also includes heavily-respected former Cardiff director Martyn Ryan and Rhino owner Reg Clark, remain interested in buying the club.

And Marshall reveals the WRU's long-term goal is to get Cardiff back into private ownership.

"We tried to sell Cardiff and we didn't feel that we found the right buyer," said Marshall.

"We went through that process and decided not to sell Cardiff.

"The strategy is not to own Cardiff. What decision we made was that while we're in this restructure, and while we're in this level of uncertainty it's a tough, tough environment to try and sell a professional club.

"So I think what we said is, 'let's get through this, get through this restructure, and as soon as we're through the restructure and there's certainty on Welsh rugby on the clubs going forward, then we'll sell Cardiff.

"That will enable us to find the right buyer for Cardiff and get the right value for Cardiff, so we're able to invest in Welsh rugby."

With regards the Hollywood consortium, their ambitions for Cardiff extended well beyond the pitch.

A central plank of the group’s vision was to develop a scripted television drama set in the Welsh capital, while promising to transform the club’s marketing and commercial reach.

The Hollywood consortium have previously engaged bankers from Rothschild to represent them in talks aimed at reopening the sale process.

It also worth noting that in an interview with the Guardian, Bath co-owner Bruce Craig said that if there was to be any chance of an Anglo-Welsh league Cardiff could not be owned by the WRU.

Selling URC shares

Last week ITV reported the WRU received nearly £10m from a deal involving the United Rugby Championship last month.

The league’s shareholders are the five national rugby unions and private equity firm CVC Capital Partners.

When CVC first invested in the United Rugby Championship in 2020, the WRU received a share of the proceeds.

An Irish company filing shows that Pro Rugby Championship DAC, the company that operates the competition, issued 1,378 new shares to Pentagon UK Bidco, a CVC-controlled entity, in September.

The move increased Pentagon’s stake, while Celtic Rugby DAC, which represents the unions’ interests, remained the other shareholder.

In March, the Financial Times reported that KKR, one of the world’s largest private equity firms, was expected to invest in Global Sport Group (GSG), the CVC entity that holds its sports investments.

A subsequent KKR investor presentation listed GSG among the companies it had helped finance this year.

Marshall admits the governing body did sell off some of its shares in the URC along with the other shareholders.

"There was a commercially sensitive transaction that the URC took out," he said.

"We, CVC and all of the governing bodies who participate in the URC, who are shareholders in the URC received monies as a result of that.

"So we sold off some of the shares. We did receive £9.6m and that is obviously helpful in terms of the money that we have that we're able to invest in Welsh rugby.

"But it was a one-off transaction that happened last month which we weren't directly involved in but we benefited from a cash perspective."

Some figures within Wales’ four professional clubs claim they were unaware of the transaction and believe the money should instead be directed towards the teams.

Funding under the PRA 25 agreement is fixed, but Marshall confirmed that a portion of the proceeds would be distributed to the four professional clubs.

"We've got reduced shareholding now and there's new shares in the URC, the clubs will be worse off in terms of the competition income they receive because they own less," he said.

"So what I've said to the clubs is that we'll make them good, so they won't be worse off. So out of that money, we will increase their funding that we give them over and above PRA 25 so they're not any worse off as a result of this transaction."

The WRU's finances and the reduction to three professional teams

The WRU has posted a loss of £18m which came despite the WRU's turnover rising £10m to £116.2m, while EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation, and before rugby allocations and exceptional costs) fell from £32.8m to £19.7m.

Excluding the impact of owning Cardiff Rugby, acquired in April 2025, EBITDA reduced from £35.2m to £28.5m.

The WRU say this is partly down to rising energy and staffing costs combined with falling ticket sales and reduced fan spend.

Marshall is adamant that there is no realistic prospect of funding four strong professional clubs along with an improved pathway.

"We've made an EBITDA this year of £28m. Looking historically, post-COVID, we've made an EBITDA of around £30m," he said.

"After that we need to cover any capital expenditure costs on the stadium, anything which typically are around £3-4m a year.

"We need to service our interest costs on our loan. We fund the community clubs which we funded to £4m this year.

"Then we've also got exceptional one-off costs which we indicate. If we improve these numbers that will leave us with around £20m to invest in professional rugby.

"At the moment, we're funding the professional clubs at £26m in terms of across the four clubs, and PRA 25.

"So from a financial perspective we just can't afford that level of funding which we're currently at.

"We're living beyond our means as shown by the loss we've made this year which is a significant loss.

"That's why we need to grow revenue.

"We're doing everything we can to do that. We need to improve these results but we've also got to manage our cost base sensibly, manage our investment sensibly, but also got to manage our distributions to the the professional clubs and the community clubs."

Marshall was also asked whether in his view, as the man in charge of the finances, the WRU should revert to their original optimal solution of two professional clubs not three.

"It's not my role to say, and I leave that to the board and to the performance team in terms of how many teams," he said.

"What I can say is we can't afford the level of funding that we're doing.

"I think we can have as many clubs as you like it's just how we fund those clubs and how competitive they can be under that level of funding, and the level of owner benefactor funding that goes into those clubs.

"I can look at it and say, ''look, at the moment we're not sustainable and we need to cut that'.

"We need to cut the amount that we're spending on professional rugby because we're making a significant loss and even though I'm ambitious and I can see growth and I know we'll improve, we've got a long way to go to improve by £18m.

"So I think from my perspective we can't afford the level of distributions that we're making."

Cutting costs and reducing headcount

Critics of the WRU argue that the governing body is bloated and could make significant savings by cutting its workforce.

But Marshall believes even substantial reductions in headcount would not generate enough money to sustain four professional teams.

"I think when you post results like this you've got to look at all aspects," he said.

"What I've said before is that from a commercial perspective I think we've got to get the balance right. We can't cut our way to success.

"We can't find £18m worth of cost savings. I think it's a balance between trying to grow our way out of this and trying to grow revenue.

"We need the resource to go and increase commercial revenue, to increase stadium revenue. We need people to do that, and expertise to do that.

"So it's a balancing act between trying to be responsible and control our costs but also enable us to grow."

Accountability and a losing Wales side

Marshall did concede that the WRU has to take some accountability for the grave financial situation but is quick to point out financial challenges in rugby are not unique to Wales.

"Yeah, of course there's always accountability," he said.

"You've always got to look at your financial performance and look at where you can improve it, where you can do better, and maybe where you haven't done so well.

"I think of course as an exec team we're accountable for these numbers and we take accountability.

"It's been a challenging year and we're trying to do better.

"We don't make excuses and you've got to control what you can control.

"But it's a tough world out there for people. It's a cost of living crisis. It's tough for people.

"So that would be a factor in terms of our reduced matchday income from where we'd want it to be.

"And some of those increased costs in terms of our food and drink costs match day, our energy costs there are other costs that other businesses and other sports businesses will be affected by too.

"But I won't make excuses."

Wales are currently ranked 11th in the world and this has hit the WRU's back pocket when it comes to ticket sales.

"Yeah, look we've won three games of the last five. If you look at the journey the professional team are on I think it's hard because they have improved a lot in the last tournament," said Marshall.

"We had a great win against Italy here, a much-needed win. They've backed that up with a win against Barbarians and then a good win against Fiji.

"So, you know, the team are on a journey, and I think people can see that. I think the public can see that but of course, the better the team do, the more demand there is for tickets, but that's just one factor.

"I think it's our job to make sure that we get the ticket pricing right, that we get the matchday experience right, and that people want to come here and we're almost immune from results.

"So of course it helps but it's just one factor I think.

"In terms of the Six Nations sales they've started really strongly. We expect to sell out for England in the next few weeks.

"We also expect Ireland to sell out and from a women's Six Nations our ticket sales are far stronger than any ticket sales we've ever had before for women's rugby.

"So we anticipate getting a record crowd next April for Wales v England."