Shaun Edwards is at home in France with an England shirt in his grasp. He has waited over 40 years for this moment, since becoming the first and only schoolboy to captain England Schools at both union and league. There is a smile on his face.

A short-term role as coaching consultant for the Red Roses might not be the England gig that fans demanded for Edwards given a career in which he has won seven Men’s Six Nations titles with Wales and France while the country of his birth have managed just four.

And now that possibility has gone as he has signed up as Argentina’s defence coach until the end of the 2027 World Cup.

Many England fans are dismayed, feeling he has again been allowed to slip through the net. As the sun pierces a blue sky above his home in Canet-Plage, a seaside resort outside Perpignan, the two-code legend tells RW why his Red Roses involvement would have made mum Phyllis proud, and he answers the burning question…

Interview by Alex Spink

Rugby World: Why Argentina, and why now?

SHUAN EDWARDS: I’m like everybody else, I want to go to the World Cup. Argentina was the first team to offer me a contract. They are ranked eighth in the world, semi-finalists in three of the past five World Cups. They seem to peak well and I’m a competitor.

I want to be at the biggest occasions. France had the best defence in the group stages of the last World Cup. We conceded an average of 12 points a game. I want to defend that. I want to try to do that again.’

People assumed your Red Roses involvement would lead to a role with the England men’s team?

I had a conversation with the boss of the (men’s) team six weeks ago and was told they’re happy with the staff they have and the way things are going. You have to respect that. I make no secret that I’d like to represent England and I’d love to win a Six Nations. Maybe two or three. That would be something else.

I can still take part in the Women’s Six Nations. Argentina have given me permission. Nothing has been agreed. It’s Sarah Hunter’s job and there’s no way I’ll be badgering for her job. She’s a friend of mine. But if I’m needed, I have Argentina’s blessing.

Felipe (Contepomi, head coach) said it will ‘keep you sharp’. England Women are a pleasure to work with. I’m giving it my all, loving every minute. I have a Red Rose on my chest and I’m proud as punch. I’ve got my zest back for coaching.

How did the Red Roses role come about?

I’d always wanted to coach them. In fact, I told the girls a story about my mum, who died in 2021. I remember us watching the Red Roses on TV and her saying, “I’d love to have played that game.” It stuck in my memory that I’d like to coach them one day. I’ve now had this opportunity.

What did you make of the Red Roses set-up?

Very, very good. They have great leaders in the team. Look at the first game I was involved in (26-19 v NZ). Their attitude to defence was fantastic. They made over 300 tackles and conceded less than 20 points. An incredible effort. I’d disagree with anyone who says women’s rugby is not as entertaining as the men’s game. It’s very entertaining.

Seve Ballesteros once said a prophet isn’t recognised in his own country. Looking at your career, the most successful Six Nations coach ever yet you haven’t coached England, does that apply to you?

It was actually Jesus, 2,000 years ago, who said, “No prophet is accepted in his home town.” It’s in the Gospels. So Seve was quoting Jesus! Look, it’s not for me to answer that question. I’d love to win a trophy for England’s women and win a trophy for England’s men. It would be one of the best things I’ve done.

Not because it would complete my journey as that would suggest I’m ready to retire, which I have no intention of doing. I’ve never won a trophy in the women’s game, nor with England (men). I’d be very happy to put that right.

You left the France set-up after helping them win a third Six Nations title but conceded 96 points in the last two rounds. Did your time end on a sour note?

I have no animosity at all towards the French Rugby Federation. They were fantastic to me. I joined the France set-up because I wanted to help. My daughters now speak two languages, I’ve had a great time living in the country. I feel nothing but gratitude at being given the opportunity to play a part.

They brought me in as a specialist in 2020 and I think I did a good job. France have always been at the forefront attack-wise; defensively, they were a bit behind. I brought them into the modern time. They hadn’t won a Six Nations for ten years. They’ve now won three.

After the England game, when you had just won another trophy, you were almost having to defend yourself in an interview for conceding 46 points…

I was being asked why we didn’t employ certain tactics. I didn’t do much coaching in that tournament because someone above me wanted to do it. Was it a difficult moment? Listen, the boss is the boss, end of story.

It’s a tough gig being a defence coach in 2026, isn’t it?

It’s the hardest job on the coaching staff. I don’t think that’s a bad thing because supporters go to a game wanting to see tries. The last Six Nations was incredible, wasn’t it? I just hope it doesn’t get to a stage where if someone scores a try, no one bothers clapping for it because, “Oh, it’s another try, there was one of those two minutes ago.”

What was your motivation for crossing into union with Wasps?

I wanted to live in London near James (his son with M People singer Heather Small). I couldn’t really have a relationship with him if I was in the North. I also didn’t think I’d proved myself in union.

You won 37 trophies in league, so why didn’t you return to union as a player like so many of your RL contemporaries?

It would have been disrespectful for me to think I could play a new game at 32 or 33. You’ve got to remember that the position I played was a pivotal one. Scrum-half in league is like fly-half in union, you’re first receiver. You must kick well, have good strategy, be the brains of the team. It would have been difficult to learn the game to the level I’d demand of myself in just one year.

So what convinced you that you could make the transition as a union coach?

Working with Ellery Hanley, who is like an older brother to me. Ellery was coaching Bath and England Saxons at the time. He made me a better player and then helped me become a better coach. I went to watch him and the strategy, the complexity of union, really fascinated me. At the same time being close to my son meant I could be a dad. Those two things really invigorated me.

Four PREM titles in ten years at Wasps, plus two Heineken Cups and a Challenge Cup… not a bad shift?

Don’t forget the Anglo-Welsh Cup in 2006! I loved my time there, working with people like Lawrence Dallaglio, probably the best leader I’ve come across. He’d lost his sister (Francesca, in the 1989 Marchioness boat disaster) and I went through a similar scenario with my brother (Billy Joe, in a car crash in 2003).

When Wales came calling in 2008, was there any doubt you could succeed at Test level?

Players, coaches, we always have a bit of doubt. I remember driving over the Bridge for the first time to meet with the squad and thinking, ‘what am I going to say?’ I told myself, “Shaun, you’re a European champion. No team from Wales has ever won the Heineken Cup.” It gave me confidence that I was coming in with some standing.

We won the Grand Slam that first year and by the time I joined the British & Irish Lions management in 2009 I think I’d proved myself.

How hard did it hit you missing out on 2013 Lions selection?

I was the only person not selected from the 2009 coaching staff, so of course it hurt. Gats couldn’t take his whole Welsh back-room staff. Professional sport is a tough world and I’ve been a professional since 1983. So I understood.

Shaun Edwards, you’re now 60. What keeps your competitive juices flowing?

I don’t bet on the horses but something Tony McCoy said resonates with me. “I only remember my losses,” he said, “because that is what keeps me driven.” When I heard that I thought, ‘oh, it’s not just me!’